"...the unmistakable tokens of death showed themselves. The body relaxed, and instantly grew stiff. The struggle was over. The insignificant little creature now knew death. As I looked at the dead moth, this minute wayside triumph of so great a force over so mean an antagonist filled me with wonder. Just as life had been strange a few minutes before, so death was now as strange. The moth having righted himself now lay most decently and uncomplainingly composed. O yes, he seemed to say, death is stronger than I am."
from "Death of a Moth" by Virginia Woolf
Study Questions
1. Threats of disorder and death recur throughout the novel, culminating in Septimus's suicide and repeating later in Sir William Bradshaw's report of that suicide at Clarissa's party. When do thoughts or images of disorder and death appear in the novel, and in connection with which characters? What are those characters' attitudes concerning death?
2. Why does Woolf end the novel with Clarissa as seen through Peter's eyes? Why does he experience feelings of "terror," "ecstasy," and "extraordinary excitement" in her presence? What is the significance of those feelings, and do we as readers share them?
3. Clarissa reads lines from Shakespeare's Cymbeline (IV, ii) from an open book in a shop window: "Fear no more the heat o' the sun / Nor the furious winter's rages. / Thou thy worldly task hast done, / Home art gone and ta'en thy wages: / Golden lads and girls all must, / As chimney-sweepers, come to dust." These lines are alluded to many times. What importance do they have for Clarissa, Septimus, and the novel's principal themes? What fears do Clarissa and other characters experience?
4. Now that we have completed our first reading of the novel, what connections are seeing between The Hours and Mrs. Dalloway? How do big themes from the present shine through? How does the analysis of Virginia Woolf bring out ideas from her novel?
from "Death of a Moth" by Annie Dillard"
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOkay so I have a few points that I would like to discuss since A LOT happened in the final portion of this book…
ReplyDelete1. Septimus’s death was so incredibly shocking and it greatly explains Woolf’s hatred for incompotent doctors. A quote that pained me deeply was, “He did not want to die. Life was good. The sun hot. Only human beings-what did they want?” (149). Septimus suffered severe PTSD from the war and even though he does not want to die he feels as though there is no place in this world for him and he feels like he can no longer conform to british society and convert himself into the proper man that Dr. Holmes wants him to be. After terrible mistreatment and a lack of help he feels as though death is the only way to escape the living hell that he resides in. If I were in the book at that scene i actually would have gotten into a fist fight with Dr. Holmes when he burst into the room shouting “The Coward!” (149). How dare he?! A man just ended his own life in front of his wife’s eyes and he chooses to respond to the situation. If this is really how doctors acted back in those days I can certainly understand why Virginia Woolf detested doctors so greatly. They were pompous fakes who built their careers on stifling people true emotions and feelings. I bet there were some good doctors but it still makes me feel sick that he had the audacity to show up to Clarissa’s party directly after that happened. He acted so casually as if he didn't just cause someone to end their own life.
2. I felt like the arrival of Sally was quite underwhelming but not in a bad way. The book is meant to be very realistic and in this kind of disappointing encounter we get a real story out of it. I thought that when they met again after all of these years it would be a dramatic and lengthy scene in the novel. I was slightly surprised when the encounter was only three paragraphs long and their initial conversation consisted of some flamboyant ‘hellos’ and ‘i missed yous’ and then Sally saying that she has five big sons and Clarissa saying that she is less lovely. There lives have changed a lot in the many years that they have been apart and it’s not the type of fairytale reunion that I was hoping for. But that’s life I guess. People grow up, they grow apart. They might still be friends but a lot has changed.
Take it easy it's just a fictional doctor
DeleteI definitely agree with your point about doctors at the time. Virginia Woolf was misdiagnosed/not understood by doctors in her time, was there was no doubt that she was taking out her frustrations in this novel. It's interesting because at the time, taking one's own life wasn't seen as a symptom of underlying mental illness, but of cowardice. Though her work however, in the examination of Septimus' mind, Woolf is able to convince readers that Septimus' suicide wasn't a result of him being too afraid to stay alive. In "The Hours" Woolf alludes constantly to the fact that one of her characters must die, and Septimus has to die.
Delete3. I feel like it was kind of odd that Clarissa could relate to Septimus so much because she has never met him before. She immediately feels as though, “Somehow it was her disaster- her disgrace” (185). This is one part of the book that felt kind of unrealistic to me. How could she feel such a deep connection to Septimus when she never even knew him. She just knew that he killed himself. She never got to know him the way that we did. If someone has any theories as to why Clarissa feels so connected to him or why she has these deep revelations after hearing about his suicide I would like to know! Hopefully someone can elaborate on this scene a bit more in class. I can wait for this discussion it’s going to be jam packed. :)
ReplyDelete4. I really did enjoy the book and the unique style in which it is written in. This is just my personal opinion but looking at the novel from a broader perspective and from a more critical outlook it felt to me that one of the main plots of the novel is just about these adults going through a midlife crisis during the turn of a new modern era. Yet at the same time In an odd way I feel like I can relate to that. As I begin a new chapter of my life with my eighteenth birthday coming up next month and with the transition of going to college next fall I feel like a lot of things in my life are changing and it really makes me wonder what kind of person I am and what my purpose in the world is. I guess you could say that I’m going through a bit of a quarter life crisis as I try to figure out a career path and establish myself in society as we make the big leap from AHS to a world full of opportunities. The characters in the novel are going through a different type of life crisis in which it is the exact opposite and they are seeing their world become smaller as life slows down and they begin to age and try to hold onto and reminisce about their youthful pasts.
My theory on Clarissa's connection to Septimus is that it comes from the timing of it all. Clarissa is very absorbed in this party and her own problems right now, that she might have lost her perception that there are other people living their lives and she is not the center of everything at the moment; the people at her party don't even talk of current events, just the past and each other. It might have been easy to forget about everyone, and when Bradshaw pulled up and was like "some man just yote himself out a window", it was probably a reality check for Clarissa. That's just my theory though!
DeleteWe really see a change in Mrs. Dalloway during this section of the book. She finally begins internalizing some of the depressing thoughts/emotions she’s been feeling throughout the day and I think Septimus’s death helps her do this. Like Septimus, Mrs. Dalloway has trouble enjoying her life and rationalizing her feelings. For this reason she acts very superficial and throws fun parties to feign confidence and composure. I noticed a passage in which she recognizes this about herself and starts to understand that faking happiness can only make a person feel worse. Woolf states, “She had felt that intoxication of the moment, that dilatation of the nerves of the heart itself till it seemed to quiver, steeped, upright;-- yes, but after all it was what other people felt, that; for, though she loved it and felt it tingle and sting, still these semblances, these triumphs… had a hollowness.” (174) After hearing about Septimus’s suicide I think she starts to understand the value of her own life, and begins to work out ways in which to fill this “hollowness” she has inside her.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that I wanted to mention from this section of the book is in fact Septimus’s death, because I wasn’t quite sure if it was him trying to escape the melancholiness and boredom he would experience in the hospital or if it was his mental illness controlling him. The book describes his thought process in this quote: “There remained only the window, the large Bloomsbury-lodging house window, the tiresome, the troublesome, and rather melodramatic business of opening the window and throwing himself out… He did not want to die. Life was good. The sun hot. Only human beings -- what did they want?... ‘I’ll give it you!’ he cried, and flung himself vigorously, violently down on to Mrs. Filmer’s area railings.” (149) When he shouts at the man outside his window, who could be seen as some sort of metaphor for humanity, is it because he is hallucinating or is he purposefully making a statement through his suicide? I understand that he would rather not live than live unhappy, but Woolf makes his death very hard to understand by leaving the situation somewhat vague. Who is the man outside his window? Does Septimus feel guilty about his burden on Rezia and therefore sets her free in this moment? I have many questions about his death, but I don’t think Woolf intended for there to be a solid answer.
I feel the most pity for Rezia, who never felt like she was in a real marriage until moments before Septimus jumps out the window. Throughout their entire marriage, Rezia attempts to take care of Septimus, but she only becomes more depressed as time goes on. In the scene where Rezia makes a hat for Mrs. Peters, Septimus is more clear-minded than ever and he does not hear any voices. For the first time, we see Rezia relaxed and very content to be laughing with Septimus “like married people.” It is so sad that all she ever wanted was a normal marriage, but right when she finally gets a glimpse of it, she is widowed.
ReplyDeleteIt is ironic that Dr. Holmes calls Septimus a coward because he is the real coward in this novel. I don’t understand how he can so shamelessly say that “no one was in the least to blame.” Septimus even says to himself that “He [does] not want to die,” but he jumps out the window when Dr. Holmes arrives because he knows that Dr. Holmes is here to take him away. Additionally, Dr. Holmes drugs Rezia so that she does not think about what just happened, which reveals his refusal to admit that he is responsible for threatening Septimus to the point of suicide. Since the war, Septimus never feels like he owns his life, especially because Sir William Bradshaw and Dr. Holmes keep pressuring him about taking him to “a home.” It seems like suicide is a release for Septimus, since death is one of the only things he feels he can control in his life.
I like how you mentioned the irony of the whole situation I never thought of that before. Dr. Holmes is definitely the coward in this whole situation!
DeleteThere is an abundance of flowers in Virginia Woolf’s “Mrs. Dalloway.” Like so many other characters, Richard Dalloway goes to buy flowers. Richard goes to buy flowers and attempt to tell Clarissa how much he loves her, and “to celebrate what was, reckoning things as you will, an event” (115). There flowers were almost a placeholder, a vessel to deliver a feeling of love, yet Richard fails to tell Clarissa that he loves her. A gesture of husbandly duty those flowers were. The desire to give flowers to his wife could be explained by Richard’s traditional feelings, and how “he liked being ruled by the descendants of Horsa; he liked continuity; and the sense of handling on the traditions of the past” (117). This could also explain why married a women that served him, and Virginia Woolf could have used this traditional marriage to show that caring on tradition doesn’t make for a better society.
ReplyDeleteThe theme of tradition is demonstrated in the methods of the doctors. The doctors don’t see the PTS, they just see a weak man struggling, and don’t bother to think about what could be plaguing their patient. Dr. Holmes goes as far as to shout “’you coward’” (149)., when Septimus jumps to his death. There is no sympathy shown, and Reiza is barely comforted. Right before his death, Septimus is asked if he is “‘in a funk’” (149). This is not the way to talk to those with mental illness, for they can’t help be be that way.
Though the main character, Clarissa Dalloway is ignored by others and left seemingly dejected. When her own daughter and Miss Kilman leave Clarissa’s house, she calls at them to “‘remember the party’… but Elizabeth had already opened the front door; there was a van passing; she did not answer” (126). It is so easy to picture poor Clarissa, standing at the top of the stairs by herself, watching as the the door swings shut and traffic on the street sweeps her daughter away. It’s really sad that Clarissa, like so many mothers, is ignored by her children. This could speak to the apparent isolation and dissatisfaction Clarissa seems to feel about her life. Such feelings are present in the last scenes, at the party. Clarissa party is certainly very nice and beautiful, and yet she feels a certain emptiness.
In my opinion, the reasons why Clarissa seems lonely at her perfect party mystify me. Clarissa seems to have everything that she could want, with the Prime Minister in her home, but still feels a “tingle and sting; all these semblance, tase trumps (dear old Peter, for example, thinking her so brilliant), had a hollowness…” (174). However, Clarissa did seem to have some insights into Sir William Bradshaw, “a great doctor yet to her obscurely evil, without sex or lust…” (184). This is interesting because Clarissa is the only character to have recognized this even though is supposedly supposed to be empty minded.
I like that you brought back the flower metaphor, I definitely forgot about that myself.
DeleteI also was very caught by the constant symbolism of the flowers. I always drew my thoughts more towards the temporariness of a flower, always relating it to the time passing. I think you're definitely onto something though with the "duties of a husband"; maybe I beat the flowers with a hose.
DeleteOften times, parents are taken for granted by their kids. It is because they do so much for their children that their children are unable to appreciate and see what they have done for them. The scene where Elizabeth ignores her mother's wish for her to go to the party is seen all too often in society today where us teenagers are often too focused on our own personal lives that we don't stop to think about what our parent's want. Our parent's sole focus is to make us happy that most of the time what they want is pushed to the side because it is the needs of their children that comes first and always will. Elizabeth ignores her mother's one wish, demonstrating her ignorance towards all Clarissa has done for her daughter.
DeleteI feel that the last one-third of the novel, as a whole, is the climax of the story. In contrast with the slow pace of the first two-thirds of the book, the last part is a breathtaking series of events: Septimus’s sudden death, Sally Seton’s surprise visit to the party, and the arrival of guests from various social statuses that ranged from high-level authorities and personages to ordinary people. However, two scenes stand out to me.
ReplyDeleteThe first is at the end of the novel, when Peter reinforces his feelings about Clarissa. Peter has known Clarissa since she was a young rebellious girl. He is Clarissa’s soulmate and understands her ways and character better than anyone else. He was disappointed with Clarissa as she turned into Mrs. Dalloway, a “perfect hostess” and a snobbish and materialistic woman after getting married. In the party, while Mrs. Dalloway is occupied with her guests, Peter meets and talks to Sally, a figure that represents the soul and true nature of Clarissa. She is cordial, frank, and unaffected, awaking Peter’s love for his Clarissa. When Mr. Dalloway eventually comes to him, he feels “ecstasy” and “extraordinary excitement” that reminds him of what he felt with Clarissa when he was young. Nevertheless, Peter is the only one who knows the real Clarissa, a combination of a rebellious girl and a materialistic woman, and can understand the struggle in her mind hidden by her elegant appearance. He feels “terror” as if he can feel her pain and despair, and knows she has no way out. Virginia Woolf ends the novel with Clarissa seen through Peter’s eyes to give readers a real, clear, and complete Clarissa.
Mostly, Woolf gives the person’s name or the word “thought” to remind the readers that the description is someone’s thought. However, Woolf leaves out the word “thought” in paragraphs from page 99 “Proportion, divine proportion” to page 102 “combination of decision and humanity that endeared Sir William so greatly to the relations of his victims,” which makes me feel that it was Woolf stating her own opinion. She is so eager to speak out that she doesn’t bother to hide behind the characters she has created. In this part, Woolf shatters the veil of the hypocrisy of Sir William Bradshaw, a symbol of absolute power, exposes his evil nature, and criticizes harshly his cruel control and persecution of people. I think it is the climax in the climax - a condensation of Virginia Woolf’s thoughts.
In this section of the book we can really see a way that Mrs. Dalloway has changed throughout the book. She begins to become introverted and this is caused by the death of Septimus and the role that he had throughout the book in Mrs. Dalloway's life. Mrs. Dalloway had trouble enjoying her life like Septimus and she copes by throwing extravagant parties. She wants to seem as a fun, happy, and outgoing person while actually she has everything bottled thing up and doesn't want to let it out. She shows her fake happiness in this quote."She had felt that intoxication of the moment, that dilatation of the nerves of the heart itself till it seemed to quiver, steeped, upright;-- yes, but after all it was what other people felt, that; for, though she loved it and felt it tingle and sting, still these semblances, these triumphs… had a hollowness.”(174) After the unfortunate death of Septimus is how she has began to understand her life. I also want to talk about Septimus's death and the circumstances they came under. I would like to know if the reason it happened was because of the way his illness controlled him. “There remained only the window, the large Bloomsbury-lodging house window, the tiresome, the troublesome, and rather melodramatic business of opening the window and throwing himself out… He did not want to die. Life was good. The sun hot. Only human beings -- what did they want?... ‘I’ll give it you!’ he cried, and flung himself vigorously, violently down on to Mrs. Filmer’s area railings.” (149) is a quote that I want to dive into because I think that it gives us an idea of what went on in his mind. I think that wolf makes it hard to understand what happens to Septimus in the way she hinds what she is saying in her writing. There are so many questions about his death that I want to be answered tomorrow but I really just want to know what was Woolf thinking when she wrote this part?
ReplyDeleteWe can see images of death Septimus (obviously, since he kills himself––the most brutal mention of death in the novel), around Rezia, and Clarissa. Septimus and Rezia are mentioned with it most frequently, where in the first third of the book Septimus thinks, “perfect
ReplyDeletenonsense it was; about death…. [Rezia] could stand it no longer.” Septimus deals with this so-called “perfect nonsense” for the entirety of the book, until he ultimately kills himself in an attempt to escape his doctors (67). After his suicide, Lucrezia is barely comforted. Efforts are more focused on cleaning up his body and escorting him away rather than on calming Rezia, who just lost her beloved husband who seemed to have been getting better. Clarissa had no such experience with death, but still had a strong connection to it. She is the subject who always sees the lines from Shakespeare’s Cymbeline, and now “the heat o' the sun/Nor the furious winter's rages” can affect Septimus. Despite having no connection to him, she still hears about him; and thinks, “in the middle of my party, here’s death” (183). In the end, we are all “chimney-sweepers”. Clarissa’s party is over, Septimus is dead, and both he and Mrs. Dalloway are one and the same. They may be disconnected by things such as social status, wealth, or other such factors, but they’re still people. They each live their own lives and can be targeted by death, illness; they have no lenses.
In connecting The Hours to Mrs. Dalloway, there is irony between the Sally and Clarissa relationship in either story. In Mrs. Dalloway, Sally and Clarissa cannot be together. Despite their mutual feelings and their obvious attachment, they are driven apart by forces that they cannot control. Cunningham’s version of Clarissa and Sally is the opposite. She and Woolf’s version of Richard have almost switched roles so that Clarissa and Sally remain a couple and live years together. Despite this, we never see them display any affection besides a few times, in the rare scenes that Sally plays a part. Septimus reminds me of Virginia Woolf since she is so ill and hates isolation and solitude, like Septimus. She didn’t marry of her own will, which we can infer from the scene where she weirdly kisses her sister, and Septimus married out of fear and desperation while in Italy.
The theme of death/fear of death is common throughout the book; this is especially evident with the characters of Septimus, Clarissa, and Peter. Septimus is an obvious example. Having served in WWI, he was constantly surrounded by death, and the effects of this are evident: in the present-day, he is mentally ill and deals with an intense fear of death before he ends up committing suicide.
ReplyDeleteClarissa also seems to share this phobia. The constant ticking of Big Ben throughout the story only serves to remind her that her time is slowly drawing closer. One key quote is “but she feared time itself, and read on Lady Bruton's face, as if it had been a dial cut in impassive stone, the dwindling of life; how year by year her share was sliced”.
Peter has this fear as well. However, he is determined to not confront it directly. Instead, he tries to take his mind off it by pretending he’s still young: he seems like he cannot let go and move on from Clarissa.
There are a few noticeable connections between The Hours and Mrs. Dalloway. An obvious similarity is the fact that both of them have one of the main characters suicide due to the fact that they are both sick and want a way out from this. The two Clarissa characters also share more than just the same name; they both spend a lot of time wondering about life and death, both buy flowers for a party they are having, and the parties themselves happen to both be for men named Richard.
As said, “The poet must die.” Everyone’s stories revolve around the thought of life or death throughout Mrs. Dalloway. From poor Septimus, who must do it to commit suicide in able to be free, to Mrs. Dalloway's constant thoughts during the story despite her seeming to be constantly happy.
ReplyDeleteSeptimus’ storyline really shocked me and a part of me really thought he was going to be able to live and heal and get better somehow, but in a way, I’ve come to realize that his character served a much bigger importance to the story. Septimus commits suicide in able to live again. We only see Septimus living through his memories of war and constantly fearing the world around him. Septimus knew it was his time to pass, and in a way, he died with the honor of the memories he once feared. I think that Septimus’ life after the war was tragic and that if there was awareness of what PTSD was or the power it took from people, the outcome would be completely different for Septimus. I feel like even when the war ended, Septimus still lived in the war, since his wife didn’t seem to love him much anymore and the doctors could not tell explain what was wrong with him. This can be seen in his final words, “I’ll give it to you!” (149). Later, Woolf writes, “the unseen part of us, which spreads wide, the unseen might survive, be recovered somehow attached to this person or that, or even haunting certain places after death.” (153), which gives us the reassurance that Septimus did the right thing, despite being called a ‘coward’ by Dr. Holmes. The moments after Septimus commits suicide seemed oddly peaceful for Rezia, as Woolf describes as, “‘He is dead,’ she said, smiling…” (150). Like Virginia Woolf said, “the poet must die.” and in this context, Septimus had to die to truly live.
I felt a connection to Clarissa throughout the story and how she appears happy and a true optimist throughout the story- but because of how the story is written, we are able to see how she truly feels based on her thoughts throughout the day. The importance of Clarissa made me start to observe more in my life and realize that not everyone who appears to be happy, may be happy and that they have the same worries that everyone else does, like her constant thoughts of death. In a way, I think of having everything last a day throughout this story was Woolf’s way of saying that a lot can happen throughout one day, but also to show that time passes by quickly and something is always happening in Clarissa’s life. We can really feel each character’s pressure between life and death as we watch their time go throughout that day.
A major connection I saw between The Hours and Mrs. Dalloway is the deaths of both Richard and Septimus. In Mrs. Dalloway, Septimus kills himself when all the doctors and diagnosis’ appear to be too much. Septimus does not wish to die, because “life was good” but rather wishes to end the criticism of the doctors and the treatment he has been given. Septimus wishes to escape from the horrors he is facing yet is in a sense unwilling which is why he waits until Reiza and Dr. Holmes return to the room to then jump. He could have easily jumped as soon as Reiza left the room, but instead he wanted to look at her one more time before it all came to a halt. In a similar way, Richard waits until Clarissa comes to prepare him for the party to jump from the window of his apartment because he did not really wish to end his life but rather end his suffering. Both Septimus and Richard had no way of dealing with all their pent up emotions and thoughts inside their head that the only way they thought to resolve it was from jumping from the windows in their homes. Before their deaths, Septimus and Richard both experienced exciting highs. Septimus was able to forget about his trauma for a few minutes and create a hat with his wife, forgetting about Evans and all the pain he had suffered during the war. Septimus and Reiza were able to act like a “married couple” again resulting in happiness for the both of them. Richard had been honored for by the astonishing accomplishment any poet or author could receive. His works which he had spent so much time on were finally receiving the recognition and power they deserved. Despite these two highs, it was not enough for each of the two characters because it was only a temporary fix, it did not eliminate their pain but rather subdue it for a few hours.
ReplyDeleteI like the smaller details you are pointing out. The fact that both Septimus and Richard both wait to see their loved ones before they jump, and the fact that they both experience a short burst of lucidity before their suicides really add depth to the characters.
DeleteThis book centralizes on the theme of death and sadness. Many of the characters are uncomfortable with who they are or fear death. The first example is Peter. Peter Walsh has been portrayed as a hypocrite since the start. He thinks he is so much better than everyone else, especially Clarissa. I think that he does this because he is insecure and in denial. He is in denial about his feelings for Clarissa, and projects his feelings onto himself, creating a narcississtic tone about him. He also fears death very much, and is in denial about this as well. He feels that he is wasting his life away with age and will die with nothing to show for himself. As the book continues, Peter seems to want to be with Clarissa more and more, this is best expressed by the quote, “I was more unhappy than I've ever been since, he thought. And as if in truth he were sitting there on the terrace he edged a little towards Clarissa; put his hand out; raised it; let it fall”. Peter never comes to terms with all of his feelings, and continues to do what he fears he is doing deep down.
ReplyDeleteThe next character who seems to model this theme so well is Septimus. Septimus spends his days running around in a park, dilusional, believing he is fighting in World War 1. He has clear mental issues, which have been left untreated. Septimus spends his days fearing death, because he thinks he is constantly in a life or death situation. Eventually, Septimus’s war-scarred brain can’t take the torture any longer, and he decides to kill himself.
The last character is Clarissa. Clarissa’s case is very similar to peter’s in that she thinks she is wasting her life. Clarissa spends her time throwing fancy parties and tending to the estate while her husband is working in the government. Clarissa fears that death is a short way away and she won’t have anything to show for her life, much like peter. Clarissa fears death because, deep down she is fearful about what little impact she has made on the world.
I believe that Woolf ends the novel through Peter’s eyes in order to show the impact that one person can have on another. This event comes on the heels of Clarissa regretting the life she has lived. This emotion that Peter feels shows the reader that one must stay alive for those around them. If Clarissa had been the one to commit suicide she would have torn the lives of those who loved her. In The Hours the character of Virginia Woolf says that someone must die in her book so that others can see the true value of life. By ending the novel through Peter’s eyes, she has greatened the value of a life. If the book were to end with Woolf contemplating her own life decisions, the reader would only be shown the value of a life through one perspective. We would only be shown how Clarissa values her own life. By showing us Peter’s thoughts and feelings, Woolf has made Clarissa life worth more than was previously thought. Now the reader can understand that Clarissa’s life may not be perfect in her own eyes, but to those around her that love her such as Peter, Clarissa’s life is worth everything.
ReplyDeleteThe lines that are read from the Shakespeare play have a deep connection with one’s sense of person. These lines have a polar opposite meaning than the symbolism of having the book end with Peter. These lines promote one’s value of their own life. These lines allude to a sense of finality that always accompanies life. In a very similar manner to Death of the Moth, the idea of unavoidable death seems to come up again. There is no doubt that Woolf chose these Shakespearean lines with a purpose, and this purpose seems to span multiple works. The lines are a reassurance to those that believe their life must come to an end, but are also comfort to those who believe they still have a purpose. Each line tells a different aspect of suicide, but also shows that one cannot escape death, just as the moth could not in Woolf’s essay. If Septimus were to read these lines he would have the idea that his purpose is over and that his time had come. This sense of of reaching the end is the goal of putting these lines in front of Clarissa on the street. Woolf wants the reader to understand on a deeper level why Septimus killed himself. As for the effect on the novel as a whole, these lines are contrasted by Peter’s love for Clarissa. While Clarissa may feel as though she has failed in her purpose, Peter has clearly not given up in his pursuit of her. The combination of these symbols creates the foundation for the value of a human life. Not only do we value our life and its purpose, we are valued by others and may take part in their own purpose.
Though Septimus did commit suicide, it was not because he wanted to, but because he felt he needed to, to feel a sense of sanity. His post-traumatic stress disorder had taken over his life. It affected him and his wife greatly. Septimus felt that the only way to relieve himself of his illness was through death. It felt necessary to him. Not only did death free him from this burden but it also freed his wife as well. Right before Septimus died, his mood was completely different from what it was before. It was like he was a completely different person. He was happy and very much alive. This lift in his mood was reflected onto Reiza. She too started to feel happy. It was nice seeing her not worrying about Septimus, even if it was only for a brief moment. This whole scene was very similar to Richard’s death scene in The Hours. Richard’s mood completely changed right before he committed suicide. It made Clarrisa Vaughn very worried because she saw what was happening. But at the same time, she felt happy for him in that brief moment as well. The fact that their mood completely changed before they committed suicide has me wondering why that is the case. My only theory is they wanted to go out with a happy memory, for themselves and their loved ones as well.
ReplyDeleteThere are many similars between The Hours and Mrs. Dalloway mainly because Michael Cunningham based The Hours off of Mrs. Dalloway. I was mostly drawn to the similarities between Septimus and Reiza’s relationship in Mrs. Dalloway and Clarissa and Richard’s relationship from The Hours. It was obvious that those characters were connected, and Michael Cunningham most likely based Clarissa and Richard off Septimus and Reiza. But there were some differences. The obvious one being, in The Hours, Clarissa and Richard were not married. That might be the reason why it did not feel like Clarissa was extremely affected by Richard’s illness. Clarissa had Sally and her daughter (who I forget the name of). They were her immediate family, so their actions affected her more than Richard did. But for Reiza, her entire life revolved around Septimus. She left her family back in Italy to be with Septimus. They did not have any kids so her life consisted of only Septimus. This took a huge toll on her mental health, in a way that was not seen in Clarissa Vaughn because she had other people to lean on, while Reiza had no one.
And honestly, the ways Reiza was going to feel better was either Septimus got better, somehow, or he died. The chances of him getting better were close to none, so maybe his death was for the best.
"But what an extraordinary night! She felt somehow very like him – the young man who had killed himself. She felt glad that he had done it; thrown it away." The first time I read this quote, I thought it was very strange - a man just killed himself, yet Clarissa feels happy for him. This connects back to The Hours, when Virginia Woolf decides that “the poet must die” in her novel in order for the other characters to value their own lives more. As much as this idea seems rather backwards and unnecessary without much thought, I have experienced this shift many times in my own life: when I hear that someone has passed, whether it be through the news, by word of mouth, or through some type of media like a movie or book, I myself feel obligated to continue living my life to the fullest. The death of others reminds us how frail life is (similarly to the piece Death of a Moth) how lucky we all are to be here. So, I think that Woolf must have killed Septimus not only to save Clarissa, but also to “save” the reader and remind them of their worth, their good fortune.
ReplyDeleteI find that “Mrs. Dalloway” is all about potential. The potential that Reiza and Septimus had to lead a happy life, a potential relationship between Peter and Clarissa, or even a potentially good party.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the novel, Woolf formulates the story such that these opportunities are systematically squandered. In Peter’s case, he had the opportunity to be in a relationship with Clarissa; the two obviously care for each other a lot. But, by not working to improve himself and instead criticizing Clarissa the opportunity of a relationship is dashed. The proposal specifically, seems to be a point of interest, for both characters think about it repeatedly over the course of the novel, unfortunately, the feelings Clarissa and Peter have for one another will never be allowed to manifest for each is to busy critiquing the other.
I think that ending the book through Peter’s eyes is a final point of sadness that Woolf wishes to include. We see that when he sees Clarissa peter becomes excited, there’s a spark inside of him that wishes to be with Clarissa, for she is capable of making him happy. However, the point that Woolf wishes to make is that this spark will not come to fruition, Clarissa and Peter will still criticize each other and forever be tantalizingly close, yet never happily togeather.
I find it interesting how Clarissa feels happy for Septimus after he dies. I equated it to a kind of analogy where Clarissa and Septimus are facing the same problems in their respective lives. Septimus, suffering horribly from PTSD, feels as though the entire world has turned against him. Similarly, Clarissa, despite being socially avid, feels isolated in society, as though she, similarily to Septimus, cannot connect to anyone despite people such as Richard and Reiza Being so close
I think another point of missed opportunity is between Richard and Clarissa. Richard obviously cares for Clarissa. He buys her flowers and intends to profess his love to her. Clarissa too, wishes to be closer to Richard, however, the pair fails to connect as Clarissa continually alienates herself from society and Richard cannot explain his feelings to Clarissa
To me, the party seems anticlimactic. The entire novel serves as a rising action to this one event, yet it seems so underwhelming. This seems as though it is emblematic of the lives of the characters. Many of the characters, such as Peter and Clarissa, were supposedly destined for great things but just as the party was nice on the surface nice but in reality meaningless. The lives of these characters were, although outwardly nice seeming, meaningless and subsequently sad.
Ms. Dalloway was quite possibly one of the most touching pieces of art I have ever experienced. Throughout the book, it is thoroughly gut-wrenching. What fascinates me the most, beyond any singular character, is Virginia Woolf herself. She is an absolute genius. The way she sees the world is incredible, and she pours this lens into each and every character in the book. It is almost as if she can detect and analyze every feeling, every minute stimuli and understand their true meaning. As I read I also thought about how Woolf pours herself into each of the characters. The elegant, "perfect hostess" of Clarissa, the secret love of Sally, the emotional despair of Peter Walsh, and the mental collapse of Septimus all seem to be different reflections of her. This absolutely heartbreaking piece truly got to me because each and every person felt real; it turns out that they really are.
ReplyDeleteI like how you focused more on the author rather than the book, since a lot of us talked about plot. It's clear how Woolf took inspiration from her life, as many authors do, but she's taken herself and chopped her personality into tiny little pieces. She puts these pieces in her characters. Each character is a living, breathing part of her, and they represent a theme within her own life. This is like her way of coping.
DeleteThe third part of the book definitely has the most change and the climax of the story, in addition to showcasing each character’s journey. However, the whole book is a masterpiece in the way it is written. The way Virginia Woolf wrote this novel is unlike any other book I have read. She encompasses different parts of the human mind and spirit in a small selection of characters, and the effects that past events have on the mind and relationships. The part of this book that astounded me was that the whole book took place in the course of a day, and makes me ponder about the difference that a day can make in the world and in my own life. Virginia Woolf spreads tiny reminders about thoughts like this throughout the novel, which is what makes her writing so brilliant. I think the most noticeable journey in the book to me is Mrs. Dalloway. The novel begins with her walking down the street to buy flowers for the party she is hosting, pondering about the car that is on the street and about her past relationship with Peter and its contrast and similarity to her current relationship with Richard. At the end of the novel, Clarissa identifies with Septimus’ thoughts about his suicide and his struggles, while also valuing the importance of life at the same time. After reading The Hours, Clarissa’s journey models one encompassing multiple characters and is someone that many people can relate to.
ReplyDeleteI suppose I’ll start with my personal thoughts on Mrs. Dalloway. It was not quite my favorite book. The internal monologue is a bit of a drag to read. With my miniscule attention span it would get boring, certainly at the beginning. The characters’ thoughts are hard to follow, often seemingly going nowhere. However, I think my dislike of it does lend itself well towards the first study question, about disorder. Everyone’s thoughts need to be chaotic and hard to follow in order to make a point, in order to be true to what how we manifest our thoughts, chaotically, influenced by every minor sensory input we receive. The monologue with the narration reveals that however well ordered everyone’s lives may appear at a glance, no one but the person in question is quite so aware of their internal disorder. Most of it is uneventful and unimportant to me because most of our lives are the same from the perspective of other people. Septimus’s death, for instance, while certainly not received positively, is a fairly minor event to most of the rest of the cast. Another contributing factor to the what I felt reading was that most of the characters have unfulfilling lives often interrupted with doubt and regret. Many of the characters spend the novel coming to terms with their regrets. Septimus does this though suicide, (or perhaps you could call it the opposite), Clarrisa does this through hearing new of Septimus, and Peter sort of just looks at Clarissa. The abrupt ending, and short time frame, however, brings doubt to the permanence of these revelations to some of the characters. Maybe Clarissa cycles through regret and acceptance depending on her mood or surrounding events. Maybe the ending of the book isn’t supposed to be the first time she’s had those thoughts. Peter is quite obviously and unrepentant flirt who probably won’t change from one party.
ReplyDeleteOn a final note, as far as connections between it and The Hours, the list is pretty much everything, considering the literary lineage of The Hours. If you drew a character web between the two books for cross connections, every major character from one book could defensibly be connected to every major character in the other.
When Clarissa was told about the suicide of Septimus she was extremely upset that the Bradshaws would bring such a dark aspect of life into her party when all she wanted to do on this day was enjoy being a good hostess. As she leaves the party room to be by herself, she begins to think about the decisions she has made in her life. Clarissa realizes that she is happy for Septimus for ending his life as it was much better than Clarissa’s decision of marrying Richard and living aimlessly. I feel like Virgina Woolf decided to end the novel with Peters eyes and his feelings of “terror”, “ecstasy”, and “extraordinary excitement” in order to portray this breakthrough that Clarissa had and convey that Peter kind of noticed this change in Clarissa’s mindset. Although this ending was very anticlimactic, I think that it leaves the reader thinking about the possibilities that can happen now that Clarissa had this sudden revelation. It can be interpreted that Clarissa might leave Richard or make something else of herself as she is troubled with the idea of continuing to live pointlessly. Even though this book is very realistic and targets the many aspects of life in a clever way, I found it a little boring mainly because of the sentence structure and elaborate language.
ReplyDeleteOpinions on death are abundant in this novel, but a few stand out to me from the novel. The first one is Mrs. Dalloway's, which is prominent in her reaction to Septimus' suicide, or at least receiving word of it. Mrs. Dalloway was angry at news of it, not because she was angry that someone had tragically taken their life, but because she felt that this suicide was taking away from her party and the appreciation that she would receive for it. She sees death as not much more than a burden, something that she doesn't feel she can be bothered with. Another character that faces the concept of death is Peter Walsh with his odd complex concerning growing older. Peter Walsh definitely fears death, evident in his agitation of growing older. He lusts like an adolescent and has the mannerisms of a giddy youngster, fidgeting with his pocket knife when he experiences excitement. It is never directly referenced, but his insecurities of growing older and being labeled as someone who is washed up can definitely be linked to him being insecure about losing his life. A third example of a character who experiences depictions of death is Septimus Warren. Septimus is haunted by visions of his fellow soldiers that he lost during the war. Only a few pages later, he has a quite simple yet awe inspiring quote before he takes his own life, "(He sat on the sill.) But he would wait till the very last moment. He did not want to die. Life was good. The sun was hot. Only human beings-what did they want?" This quote really disturbs me and touches me at the same time. It does exactly what Woolf wanted of me; to appreciate life better and everything that affects it. Septimus does not want death, he, of anyone, desires it the least of anyone in the novel. Septimus' death is not something that he wanted to do, but rather something he felt that he had to do. That is what tragedy is. Even worse, is how the news that followed up to the characters at the party did not seem to affect them the way that it affected me.
ReplyDeleteI don't really see Peter fearing age as much as having lost his youth. He still has plenty of years left in him.
DeleteTomato tomato, potato potato
DeleteThis was my favorite section of the book. Through the eyes of Septimus and Rezia Woolf elegantly portrayed what I believe is her rendition of her personal attitude towards mental illness. Just as Septimus is misunderstood and constantly probed by helpless doctors, Virginia Woolf herself had a hard time in terms of her relationship with caretakers and her own mental stability. Also, when I began Mrs. Dalloway one of my very first thoughts was “How could a book like this possibly have a climax?” I was shown just how through the suicide of Septimus. In a last ditch attempt to maintain possession of his lucidity and consciousness from “the doctors” he throws himself out the window. This event also directly parallels Richard’s suicide in “The Hours.” It seems that each character’s idea of what defines life and their ability to choose death is a recurring theme throughout the story. For example, in this section of the book while Septimus defines life as maintaining his sanity from the bothering doctors of society, Clarissa’s definition of life as beauty establishes a contrast. Clarissa even mentions in one of her inner monologue that a person can live beyond death through the influence they have had on others.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the part I particularly enjoyed was simply the introduction of Mrs. Killman. Mrs. Killman is a stereotypical envious, hypocritical, and resentful christian. I just found it funny that as a non-religious author, Woolf certainly put every interaction she had with annoying religious people in her own life, into this character.
Often, when a person claims they are a supporter of people with a certain mental illness, disease, etc. they do no consider the symptoms. When the person in question exhibits these symptoms, the general public is unsupportive and distant. This same case applies to the relationship between Septimus and his wife or the prim and proper London society he lives in. He is battling PSTD but every time he exhibits mood swings, suicidal thoughts, or lack of emotion entirely, he feels cast away from the people he thought he knew best. The same anguish can be felt by Virginia Woolf as depicted in "The Hours." Leonard, like Lucresia, wants her to listen to her doctor without understanding or working with her symptoms which causes a strain in their marital relationship. For a book entitled "Mrs. Dalloway," a lot of the motifs, themes, and symbols relate to the "minor" characters.
ReplyDeleteThe theme of miscommunication and duality can also shine through the relationship between Septimus and Rezia, Clarissa, and Peter. In this case, one character wants something, the other does not or they command them to desire it. For example, Lucresia wants a baby, Peter wants a relationship, and Clarissa wants people to enjoy a party. They are all controlled by their desires only to be overshadowed by other characters or circumstances that defeat their desires. This downfall of their goals can give us some insight into the mind of Virginia Woolf herself, whose motivations were always shot down because of her internal self or the way society reacted to women like her during that period.
ReplyDeleteSeptimus is clearly suffering throughout the novel and Rezia is constantly trying to answer his call for help, but the only resource she has is Holmes and Sir Bradshaw. The doctors were uneducated in dealing with mental health and their only motivation in helping people is furthering their career and self image. The doctors wanted Septimus to suppress his trauma, instead of taking the time to listen to him which left him alone in his struggle.
I was surprised, but I enjoyed the moment of relief before Septimus’s death when Rezia finally felt Septimus returned to his old self. I think Septimus knew he was going to commit suicide and wanted to have one final moment happinesss with Rezia before he did. He sat by Rezia helping her make the hat and we are able to see how they understand each other. He wanted to make their last moment together simple, yet meaningful as their relationship once was so she could remember their happy times. Rezia felt like his mental state was finally getting better and saw hope for the future in this moment, but Septimus saw it as a goodbye. In Septimus’s eyes there was no place for him in a world that he saw as broken and unable to fix. He knew Rezia wouldn’t have the opportunity to completely live if he was still alive and the only way he could communitcate his pain to those who would never listen to him was through suicide. He died so the other characters could live and appreciate their own lives.