"I wanted to be a writer, that's all. I wanted to write about it all. Everything that happens in a moment. The way the flowers looked when you carried them in your arms. This towel, how it smells, how it feels, this thread. All our feelings, yours and mine. The history of it, who we once were. Everything in the world. Everything all mixed up, like it's all mixed up now. And I failed. I failed. No matter what you start with it ends up being so much less. Sheer pride and stupidity."
Study Questions
2. Speaking of The Hours, as we explore the text through the lens of the film, what connections are seeing between The Hours and Mrs. Dalloway. How do big themes from the present shine through? How does the analysis of Virginia Woolf bring out ideas from her novel?
3. What was Clarissa's relationship with Sally Seton? What is the significance of Sally's reentry into Clarissa's life after so much time? What role does Sally play in Clarissa's past and in her present?
4. What is Woolf s purpose in creating a range of female characters of various ages and social classes-from Clarissa herself and Lady Millicent Burton to Sally Seton, Doris Kilman, Lucrezia Smith, and Maisie Johnson? Does she present a comparable range of male characters?
5. Clarissa's movements through London, along with the comings and goings of other characters, are given in some geographic detail. Do the patterns of movement and the characters' intersecting routes establish a pattern? If so, how do those physical patterns reflect important internal patterns of thought, memory, feelings, and attitudes? What is the view of London that we come away with?
6. Woolf shifts scenes between past and present, primarily through Clarissa's, Septimus's, and others' memories. Does this device successfully establish the importance of the past as a shaping influence on and an informing component of the present? Which characters promote this idea? Does Woolf seem to believe this holds true for individuals as it does for society as a whole?
7. Clarissa and others have a heightened sense of the "splendid achievement" and continuity of English history, culture, and tradition. How do Clarissa and others respond to that history and culture? What specific elements of English history and culture are viewed as primary?
How does Clarissa's attitude, specifically, compare with Septimus's attitude on these points?
"Her cake is a failure, but she is loved anyway. She is loved, she thinks, in more or less the way the gifts will be appreciated: because they've been given with good intentions, because they exist, because they are part of a world in which one wants what one gets...She will not lose hope. She will not mourn her lost possibilities, her unexplored talents (what if she has no talents, after all?). She will remain devoted to her son..."
3. What was Clarissa's relationship with Sally Seton? What is the significance of Sally's reentry into Clarissa's life after so much time? What role does Sally play in Clarissa's past and in her present?
4. What is Woolf s purpose in creating a range of female characters of various ages and social classes-from Clarissa herself and Lady Millicent Burton to Sally Seton, Doris Kilman, Lucrezia Smith, and Maisie Johnson? Does she present a comparable range of male characters?
5. Clarissa's movements through London, along with the comings and goings of other characters, are given in some geographic detail. Do the patterns of movement and the characters' intersecting routes establish a pattern? If so, how do those physical patterns reflect important internal patterns of thought, memory, feelings, and attitudes? What is the view of London that we come away with?
6. Woolf shifts scenes between past and present, primarily through Clarissa's, Septimus's, and others' memories. Does this device successfully establish the importance of the past as a shaping influence on and an informing component of the present? Which characters promote this idea? Does Woolf seem to believe this holds true for individuals as it does for society as a whole?
7. Clarissa and others have a heightened sense of the "splendid achievement" and continuity of English history, culture, and tradition. How do Clarissa and others respond to that history and culture? What specific elements of English history and culture are viewed as primary?
How does Clarissa's attitude, specifically, compare with Septimus's attitude on these points?
Septimus is such a sad person. Truly. All he does is be depressed, evident in his therapist appointments and his desire to be dead. I reinforce that he is Mrs. Dalloway's foil character because of the true scale of his pessimism in contrast to her optimism. Clarissa is associated with things like flowers color, while Septimus is associated with the grey of London, and draws most of his imagery from the war. Septimus has a wife that wants to help and support him but she has no idea how, which is quite upsetting. Not to say that Richard is a dreamboat, but he doesn't need to take as much care of Mrs. Dalloway as much as Rezia has to take care of Septimus. A connection between these characters and The Hours is in how most of The Hours makes its connections. If Septimus was born in a more modern time, he would be able to receive more help for his PTSD and suicidal thoughts. I think that his related character in the hours is Richard, but Richard is supposed to be Richard so I'm not sure how valid that theory is. If I'm being quite honest, I'm not sure what the significance of Septimus appearing out of the flower shop is. Perhaps it could be that he's seeing Mrs. Dalloway being all hippity happy while he, a sad person, is still a sad person, being sad, in London.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Richard from "The Hours" is supposed to resemble Richard from "Mrs. Dalloway". I think the only reason he is named that is to give a nod to the book "Mrs. Dalloway" further more. In "The Hours" Richard is struggling internally and Clarissa is trying to support and help him in any way she can however she does not know how which is a direct parallel to Reiza and Septimus' relationship. I believe that your theory of Richard being Septimus in the 21st Century is correct.
DeleteI agree with Nicoles point with Richard and Clarissas relationship resembling that of Reiza and Septimus' relationship. I feel like we can draw more connections between these characters as Richard is suffering internally with everthing that happened to him in his past and his current life which is very similar to Septimus mental state. Both Clarissa and Reiza desperately try to help these characters out but dont seem to know how.
Delete-leannette garcia
DeleteI suppose I should explain a little more. Richard is Richard in both novels. The only difference between the two characters is the settings in which they have to live in. If Richard from Mrs. Dalloway was put into the 90's, then he would love Mrs. Dalloway, but she would slip through his hands, marry the woman she truly loved, and he would kill himself. They appear to not have the same reflective characteristics, but deep, deep down they are the same person.
DeleteWatching “The Hours” and reading “Mrs. Dalloway” simultaneously is very interesting particularly because I get to watch Virginia Woolf’s process of creating Mrs. Dalloway’s story. In the movie, we see her struggle with the idea of life and death in her own life, but also in Clarissa’s. When she is talking to Leonard, she says, “Someone has to die in order that the rest of us should value life more.” While we do not yet know what happens in “Mrs. Dalloway,” we do know that Clarissa in “The Hours” chooses life after seeing her friend, Richard, commit suicide. Also, watching Woolf contemplate so much about her story line puts the novel in a different light. She barely eats anything and spends most of her time alone solely thinking about Clarissa’s destiny. Initially, I thought that the novel was just a stream of consciousness where Woolf expressed what was on her mind through her characters, but now I see that “Mrs. Dalloway” only could have been written by a genius like Woolf. Now I understand that she uses people’s everyday, seemingly trivial thoughts to create complex emotions and relationships.
ReplyDeleteOn some real stuff, the quote “Someone has to die in order that the rest of us should value life more,” really hit me. I do agree with you that it took a special and unique mind like Woolf to concoct this story, for better or for worse.
DeleteThough Clarissa and Septimus can be seen as complete opposites externally; internally, they have a lot of similarities, which Woolf allows us to see by switching perspectives and giving us each characters personal thoughts. From the outside, we are told that Clarissa is seen as “Mrs. Richard Dalloway”, but because of her own thoughts telling us, she wishes for the complete opposite of herself. It’s almost as if she tries to disguise her inner thoughts with what people can see, like her yellow hat. She is described as a “jay, blue-green, light, and vivacious” in the previous section as well. Her inner thoughts are very different though, she is internally struggling with what she wants- but she would rather maintain in safety with Richard, rather than fleeing and being with Peter or Sally. As told, she did buy her flowers herself. As we move deeper into the story, we are able to see that Clarissa shares some similarities to Mrs. Brown in The Hours, where she truly does not wish to stick to the standard housewife of that time. Clarissa is stuck between wanting to be free, but also wanting to remain in the safety of her status quo. She, like Septimus, is emotional through her memories and relies on them greatly as a source of her happiness. Both characters do not seem happy in their current position. With Septimus, we see him from his wife’s perspective a lot, which isn’t very positive. It is clear that she tries to care for him, but he is tiring her. Septimus is usually represented by his PTSD and how he is constantly reminded of his old friend, Evan, who he imagines is still alive. He is mentioned to have tried to commit suicide several times. Both him and Clarissa are stuck in their minds and cannot move past their memories.
ReplyDeleteAs I continue to read this book I am beginning to see so many parallels between characters and how their stories can be so different yet so similar at the same time. One of the most evident to me is the similarities between Lucrezia and Peter. Even though these characters haven't even met yet their struggles are stories intertwine in the novel when they both pass the same woman who is singing in the streets. The way that these two characters react to the situation shows a lot about their personalities and similarities and differences. When Peter first hears the song it completely disrupts his train of thought and he begins to contemplate the song like an “ancient song bubbling up”(81) but in the end decided to just ignore all of that and “He couldn't help giving the poor creature a coin as he stepped into his taxi” (82). He brushed aside his mesmerizing thoughts about the song and just threw her a coin and went on his way. He treats Clarissa in this same type of manner. He is completely mesmerized by Clarissa just like he is with the song but at the same time he critically judges and pities her just as he did to the old woman.
ReplyDeleteLucrezia’s interaction is similar in the sense that she feels bad for the lady just as Peter had. Se and Peter both feel like they both don’t have a place in society and are both unhappy with their love lives. They try to make it seem like their lives are perfect and great but in reality they feel very empty and ostracized from society. Though what is different is that she is empowered by the words that the woman says which I believe were about not caring about what other people think and see which was very prominent in these conservative and proper times.
I do feel bad for Lucrezia too, she's really got it rough. I like the comparison with Peter, I didn't pick up on that. I think Lucrezia might have it a little worse than Peter in my opinion, she's almost like a fish out of water on a dog leash, except the person holding the dog leash is suicidal and the fish takes care of the person more than the person takes care of the fish; if that makes sense?
DeleteI like how you captured Peter's rather flighty behavioral patterns. In addition, I agree that Lucrezia is terribly lost, because she doesn't quite know what to do with her husband, and is a foreigner, whisked away from her Italian homeland by a man she was engaged to, and that man has now been rendered infantile, unable to care for himself.
DeleteThere are many connections between The Hours and Mrs. Dalloway. The most obvious are the names of the characters, but even this is a misnomer. While there is an obvious comparison to be made between Clarissa Vaungh and Clarissa Dalloway, my favorite ‘easter egg’ in the movie was Richard’s book. There are multiple points throughout the movie when someone says that Richard told a true story, but only changed the names of his characters. I thought of this as a clever nod to the way The Hours was made. The story of Clarissa Vaungh is very much like the story of Clarissa Dalloway, except that the names of the characters are changed. For instance, Richard in the movie is very similar to a combination of Peter and Septimus in the book. Richard shares the love story of Peter in some aspects, and both are considered “visionaries”. Peter is described as a thinker, and Richard is shown to be a thinker as well. Richard also has similarities with Septimus. In addition to committing suicide, Richard is also crippled by a disease and does not want to listen to the doctors. Clarissa’s life also features a daughter, female lover, and the desire to plan the perfect party.
ReplyDeleteThe most impactful line in The Hours was spoken by Woolf. When Leonard asks her why a character must die, she responds along the lines of “a character must die so that the rest can realize the value of life”. This is clearly a defining moment in the movie and brings so much more meaning to the near-suicide experience of Mrs. Brown, the deaths of Woolf and Richard, and the eventual death of Septimus. This reasoning showed me how Woolf’s mind works, and how her concept of life and death is well thought out. This reflected in Mrs. Dalloway, and foreshadows the aftermath of Septimus’s upcoming death in the book.
There is so much beauty in this novel, even just in the frequent descriptions of time and how it passes. I noticed at the end of this reading a specific passage, which takes the simple action of a clock ticking and alerting the time, and makes it a wonderful and intriguing moment. “Shredding and slicing, dividing and subdividing, the clocks of Harley Street nibbled at the June day, counselled submission, upheld authority, and pointed out in chorus the supreme advantages of a sense of proportion, until the mound of time was so far diminished that a commercial clock… announced… that it was half-past one.” (102) Based on the time we’re about halfway through the book, which indicates there will be many more beautifully worded and vivid descriptions to come. I think these descriptions are what help make the book interesting, because otherwise it is a pretty simple story with otherwise uninteresting characters. Virginia Woolf helps make them seem interesting by speaking about their thought processes, but when you look past the emotions and stories conveyed through their thoughts, they really are very average examples of everyday people. Take Rezia for example, who speaks very little but is given more character through her thoughts. “‘The English are so silent,’ Rezia said. She liked it, she said. She respected these Englishmen, and wanted to see London, and the English horses, and the tailor-made suits, and could remember hearing how wonderful the shops were” (88). Her simple conversation with Septimus is elevated by the language and descriptions that Woolf uses, turning a boring interaction into a super interesting one.
ReplyDeleteI agree. The unbelievably creative language throughout the piece is astounding. The way she describes clocks as "nibbling" is quite odd yet so beautifully worded and eloquent. It is almost as if the book is a window into the way Virginia Woolf sees the world, with all of its constant stimuli transcribed into text due to her fascinating genius.
DeleteSeptimus and Clarissa, to me, seem like two sides to a similar coin. Each falls in love with the world around them, Clarissa thinking “life; London; this moment of June” (4), while Septimus sees the world, thinking: “the trees waved, brandished. We welcome, the world seemed to say; we accept; we create. Beauty, the world seemed to say…. Beauty sprang instantly. To watch a leaf quivering in the rush of air was an exquisite joy” (69). Septimus later loses this sense of beauty after the war. He marries Lucrezia in order to try and make sense of the world and of himself, but he fails and becomes overwhelmed by his own lack of humanity. On the other side, though, each struggle with sickness. Clarissa’s is never named or explicitly stated, but Septimus we observe in full detail. His disease is extremely obvious, alerting his wife to the point where she takes him to various doctors because she is so worried.
ReplyDeleteClarissa with Sally Seton, now, is similar to the relationship with Clarissa and Sally in The Hours, except that Clarissa and Sally never end up together. Sally Seton here is like the relationship between Kitty and Laura Brown; something not to be seen, something purely for the experience of those involved, that for them alone “the whole world might have turned upside down!” (35). Sally was unattainable to Clarissa, yet the one closest to her at the same time. When Peter interrupted them––“like running one’s face against a granite wall in the darkness!”––it proves how little that Clarissa is allowed to be herself and to show these feelings for women (36).
In the end, Sally is still a memory (as of now). These shifts from memory to reality help to tell the story of Clarissa, Septimus, and Peter. This not only makes the story somewhat more easy to tell and follow, as we find out details of the past relatively soon after they happen, but we gain a clearer understanding of the present. It’s easier to fit in characters with each other and to tie them together. Woolf sees this idea present globally, as she introduces some side characters with snide remarks about their own home lives. One example is Sir William, who gets his own few paragraphs talking about his own history and life. It gives an element of humanity to many of the characters, even (if like Septimus) they lack it themselves.
I love how you related to Septimus to Clarissa as opposed to Virginia Woolf. I think it's important to note that these two main characters represent different parts of Virginia, but are more connected to each other in the story. They are experiencing the same beautiful day in London, but in different ways thanks to the people they have in their lives and the inner turmoil they both experience.
DeleteI enjoyed reading your blog post, especially the paragraph on Clarissa's and Sally's relationship. I had never thought of comparing Clarissa and Sally in "Mrs. Dalloway" to Kitty and Laura Brown in "The Hours," but the two relationships really are similar. Now I see that in the movie, Clarissa and Sally are more outspoken about their relationship, but in the novel, it is more private.
DeleteVirginia Woolf switches from the present to the past effortlessly throughout the entirety of the novel Mrs. Dalloway as a way to demonstrate the importance of one's past and its effect on the present as well as the future. A person’s past shapes them into who they are as a person giving an insight as to why they act a certain way. In their youth, Peter and was madly in love with Clarissa and to this day still is, despite being too stubborn to admit it. When Peter thinks of Clarissa, he is instantly taken back to a time he was at Bourton, Clarissa’s family home. Watching Clarissa with another man caused Peter to act in spite and “directly criticize” her by calling her the “‘perfect hostess’”. Peter wished to make Clarissa feel just as he did by deliberately choosing words to make her “winc[e] all over”. The unhealthy relationship depicted by the two in the past directly relates to the two’s relationship in the present. When Peter and Clarissa see each other after many years apart, the two begin to constantly think about what the other one thinks of them as a result of their past tumultuous relationship. Peter and his thoughts are always on Clarissa’s mind which can only be explained because of their past.
ReplyDeleteI like how you wrote about Peter and Clarissa's relationship, and how the past effects their present day life. It is also interesting comparing the relationships in Mrs. Dalloway, to how Michael Cunningham crafted them into his novel, The Hours.
DeleteSince this of the reading focused mostly on Septimus and his wife, Reiza, I have come to the realization that Septimus’s relationship with Reiza is quite similar to Richard’s relationship with Clarissa in The Hours. Both male characters are struggling through their own crisis while their female counterparts are hopelessly trying to support them. Though there are more dialogues exchanged between Clarissa and Richard than Septimus and Reiza, the men still seem to be trapped in their own world, unable to escape or express their feelings to their female counterparts. And the ladies are trying their best to support them, but it just does not seem to be helping at all. This is making them extremely frustrated at the men, and themselves because they are stuck in a tough position. They have no clue what they need to do to pull the men back into reality. And since the men are stuck in their own world, they cannot communicate their needs and wants.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this big section mainly on Septimus and Reiza, I can clearly tell that all four characters, from both books, seem to lack communicate. Septimus and Reiza, quite literally because they do not talk to each other much. And ironically, Clarissa and Richard converse with each other quite often, but even then, they still cannot understand each other.
I really like your idea of miscommunication, or the lack of communication. Because that seems to be the problem in all of these relationships, right? I think this reflects how Woolf must have felt, trapped in her mental illness: with mental illnesses, it's hard to communicate how you feel, and it's even harder for those on the receiving end to understand and accept.
DeleteThere is something about Virginia Woolf in “The Hours” movie that scares me. It is very apparent that there is something going on within her, that she is no right in the head. The fact that she plans out her own demise to follow that of a character in her book is not normal. Woolf’s inner feelings manifest themselves in ironic ways in “Mrs. Dalloway.” For a book that supposedly centers around the planning of a party, there is a very dark turn in the life of Septimus. Sir William, a supposedly more competent doctor than Holmes says that the only way Septimus can recover is if “he would life in bed in a beautiful house in the country” (97). This is what Woolf herself hated, and is ironic, for being cloistered in the countryside did nothing to ameliorate her condition. Septimus could be abandoned by his wife Lucrezia, like the abandoning of Richie by Laura Brown. There is a hopelessness that pervades the Lucrezia’s being, as well as inadequacies and no certain answers. Septimus is like a child; he can barely function on his own, but wouldn’t care if his wife left. After Lucrezia stops wearing her wedding band, Spetimus believes he is no longer married and has feelings of “agony, with relief. The rope was cut; he mounted; he was free…” (67). In addition, when he hears Lucrezia crying “he felt nothing (91).
ReplyDeleteThis novel starts with flowers, and right in the middle, another character goes to buy flowers, Lucrezia, where “she had had to buy the roses, Rezia said, from a poor man in the street. But they were almost dead already…” (93). Flowers are a symbol of good times, and tend to lighten up the mood. However, flowers are a fleeting thing, and a thing used to cover up what is wrong. Like Clarissa Vaughan buying flowers for Richards ill-fated party, the various flowers are materialistic, and don’t actually do anything. In Lucrezia’s case, she most likely feels a sense of despair, as she bought dying flowers, which could parallel the condition of her husband.
Your mention of flowers as a symbol for good times is a very good observation. I think the materialism of the flowers is not as worthless as suggested, however.
DeleteI like how you bring up the kind of darker side of the novel and I agree that it is quite apparent in the movie. You see Virginia Woolf's ghostly type of presence and she seems so empty and hollow inside. That kind of physical appearance, tone and presence is something that we actually don't see in The Hours and in Mrs. Dalloway simply because there's no pictures and we have to imagine everything up in our heads. I believe that the movie did a great job in showing the personality of Virginia Woolf as someone who is in a deep state of agony but has no true way to express herself to the world without looking like a crazy person. You see this in the movie by her blank stares, expressionless face and her unexcitement about the world around her. In the movie you see her constantly in deep thought, contemplating her life and I feel like it really adds to the authors character and background.
DeleteI like the idea you had in connecting Richie to Septimus–a bit of a stretch would be to compare how Richie's father was also in a war, and that could be a nod from Cunningham towards Septimus. Also, once Rezia stopped wearing her band, I saw it as a way for Septimus to forget that he had married in a rush. The reason he married Lucrezia was because he loved her humanity and her ability to love; something he himself lacked. Taking off her ring meant something drastic to Rezia, but her husband could realize that he was no longer tied down to a woman he wasn't in love with.
DeleteI don't know what it is, but I find “Mrs.Dalloway” so depressing. Don't get me wrong, All the words are so elegant as the flow off the page, the scenery is beautiful, the characters enthralling. Every time I read I find sadness, lurking in the background, waiting while Septimus and Reiza talk, plotting as characters talk. It's ubiquitous throughout the novel. I can't help but sympathize with these incredibly real characters. One, in particular, that I feel bad for is Reiza. Woolf does such an amazing job creating such an utterly depressing story; Imagine falling in love, then being whisked off to a foreign land, away from your home, away from your family, then the only connection you have, oh who, by the way, is the one you love, grows distant, unable to reciprocate on your feelings and you are left, entirely alone. I think Woolf’s characters are so real because they are so sad, and sadness is something to which we can all relate. I feel for Septimus too, being misdiagnosed, not taken seriously, cast aside when your only crime was to care for your country, that’s a truly terrible fate. I think the reason why the story of Septimus and Reiza resonates so well is that it is so grim. Their story is one of lost opportunity, they are young, they could have had a life, but they are, years after the armistice, years after the last shot has been fired, still stuck fighting the first world war.
ReplyDeleteThroughout this section of the reading Sperimus plays a far more prominent role than beforehand. It is quite sad. To him, the Regent Park is not merely a park, but a question, a battleground, a fiery pit, a place of love, and a place of death. He hears birds sing to him in Greek. Voices wrack his mind. His dead comrade emerges from the bushes unscathed. This is terrifying. This section also depicts the same scene from Lucreiza’s perspective as well. It is gut- wrenching. She loves Septimus in such a deep, visceral level, that she would do anything for him. This makes his mental decline unbearable for her, for she feels guilty, and asks the world why this is her situation, her unchangeable life. It is also quite sad that a large amount of this suffering from both characters could be helped had Septimus been diagnosed properly. While the doctors believe there is “nothing wrong with him”, it seems that he quite clearly has shell shock from WW1. The horrors of war have never truly left him, and since nobody understands his ailment, the people he loves most suffer alongside him in seemingly incurable agony.
ReplyDeleteI think very similar to you during this because I too thought that Septimus had an important role in this part of the book. He shows why the park is important and I feel that he showed a deeper meaning of the park which resonates with me more.
DeleteI agree that the way Septimus has been cast aside by society is terrible. I think it represents the shortcomings of this time period that they would leave a man who obviously has terrible PTSD undiagnosed, and with no help.
DeletePeter reminiscing about his past with Clarissa and how angered he was as he saw the relationship between Richard and Clarissa flourish was similar to Clarissa’s anger at Louis. The fact that Richard chose him and spent his summer with him when she was there for him emotionally made her cry out as she sank to the corner of her kitchen floor. The frustration that unrequited love (at least according to their own unreliable perspective) can bring about is raw and unhinged in both forms of media and I processed and made connections of these emotions back to my own life, casting certain people in my life to play the part of these immortal characters.
ReplyDeleteSeptimus’ visions to that of Virginia’s when she has her headaches and the train scene dispute between her and Leonard. He tries to reason with her, tell her that the voices in her head and that the doctors would know what's good for her but she is unwavering. There is a certain sadness you can observe in Leonard just like the one that exists within Lucrecia and that mental illness parallel is very clear.
Sally Seton is Clarissa's friend from years ago, and Clarissa remembers their time together fondly. She ponders how she has had feelings for Sally in the past. She reminisces on different things they did together, suck as the time Sally ran naked down the hall. Clarissa continues to explain her relationship with Sally and brings up the time that they shared a kiss on the rooftop, “Then came the most exquisite moment of her whole life passing a stone urn with flowers in it. Sally stopped; picked a flower; kissed her on the lips. The whole world might have turned upside down!”, this quote shows that Clarissa is a lesbian, which would imply that she hasn’t been happy in any of her relationships with men. Sally Seton plays an important role in this story, she represents the dreams of Clarissa’s past. While her relationship with Richard may have been less risky, and her family is certainly more approving of their relationship, the one she dreams about is Sally, yet society forbids their relationship.
ReplyDeleteSeptimus Warren Smith, after watching The Hours, feels quite close to Virginia in their battles with mental health. The way he talks frequently of killing himself and is constantly under the watch of a partner, as well as his distaste for doctors brought to mind Virginia more than it did Richard or Laura. Septimus feels like a criticism of how mental health was treated, and the effects of the war after it was over. It’s especially relevant to us today, reading it now when mental health is a topic has become more high profile. The perspective being in part from that of the affected is also quite something. Septimus’ internal dialogue reveals that he has a great amount of self awareness of his problems, as well as how he has hurt Reiza. Speaking of it, this section of the novel goes deep into how these problems affect not only the ill, but also those close to them. Lucreiza is also victim of Septimus’ illness. Her worry deal with how her husband talks of killing himself, and why she has to go through the anguish that she does. Their relationship mirrors both those of Virginia and Lenoard as well as Laura and Dan. The cause being the inability to reciprocate the love and care provided by a partner is like that of Laura’s discontent, whereas the way mental illness affects their interpersonal relations is most close to how it hurts Virginia and Lenoard.
ReplyDeleteIf Clarissa is someone who feels too much and has done too little, Septimus is someone who has done too much and can’t feel enough. Clarrisa loves all the things Septimus can’t. Septimus has the close caring partner and lifetime distinction that Clarrisa feels self conscious about.
Peter in this section is just one big ball of regrets and dissatisfactions on the inside, it turns out. Contrary to how he carries himself in front of others, without any gloom, and to how he treated Clarrisa, he actually mopes about not being able to marry her. He’s the kinda guy who would buy a sports car at this point in his life if he was born a few decades later.
I definitely agree with the first part of your blog, with Woolf's critique of how mental health at the time was treated. It's interesting how she parallels her own life with that of Septimus. The English doctors were so fond of prescribing the outdoors to those suffering mental illness, unlike the individualize attention that we now tend to give these people.
DeleteI agree. The medical conditions during Virginia's time is lacking, especially in the fields relating to mental health. The doctor know little of those psychological diseases and they could do little to prevent or cure the patients. Based on their understanding, maybe the best solution is quietness and outdoor times.
Deletethroughout this section of the reading Septimus plays a far more prominent role than beforehand. It is quite sad. To him, the Regent Park is not merely a park, but a question, a battleground, a fiery pit, a place of love, and a place of death. He hears birds sing to him in Greek. Voices wrack his mind. His dead comrade emerges from the bushes unscathed. This is terrifying. This section also depicts the same scene from Lucreiza’s perspective as well. It is gut- wrenching. She loves Septimus in such a deep, visceral level, that she would do anything for him. This makes his mental decline unbearable for her, for she feels guilty, and asks the world why this is her situation, her unchangeable life. It is also quite sad that a large amount of this suffering from both characters could be helped had Septimus been diagnosed properly. While the doctors believe there is “nothing wrong with him”, it seems that he quite clearly has shell shock from WW1. The horrors of war have never truly left him, and since nobody understands his ailment, the people he loves most suffer alongside him in seemingly incurable agony.
ReplyDeleteI think your analysis of Septimus’s condition is quite poignant. I think the fact that you brought up, that all of this hardship could have been avoided, or at least eased, if he had been provided with the care he needed, only adds to the sense of sadness present in the novel. I think that this is something that Woolf very intentionally tried to express, for it adds to the sense of missed opportunity and failure within the novel.
DeleteMrs. Dalloway, Septimus and Sally Seton are obviously three different persons, with different external appearance and behaviour. However, I think Woolf want to use them to reflect complex inner thoughts and feelings of one person, Clarissa. Mrs. Dalloway, a high-society lady, without much property of her own,could not be independent before and after her marriage. Instead of romantic soulmate - Peter Walsh, she marries the reliable Richard Dalloway, a conservative politician, to ensure a rich life and a higher social status, and acquires a social identity. To gain these, she obeys every traditional rules and customs, and doesn’t do anything improper. She plays roles of a wife, a mother and an perfect hostess. She carefully plans parties not only because that she wants to help her husband’s career, but also they are the only things she has and only purpose of her life. Opposite to her exterior, deep down in her mind, she thirst for freedom and meaningful life. Sally is a real Clarissa, who is cordial, frank, and dares to break the traditions and orders and to be herself. However, she knows, the reality is that she lives in a cage, the old social system, and she is too weak to break it. So she has a veneered composure, hiding and locking her most serious thoughts to herself. No one else could reach or understand her secret world. Under her calm appearance, her inner aspiration burns her and drives her crazy. Woolf once explained that Septimus and Clarissa were doubles. I think Woolf wanted to depicts the painful struggling in Clarissa’ mind with a concrete figure, Septimus. Septimus’s struggling between the reality and his war imagination, exposes Clarissa’s suffering in her heart.
ReplyDeleteWhile Mrs. Dalloway covers one day in one woman’s life. Hours Hours by Michael Cunningham tells stories of three women:Virginia Woolfs ,the author of Mrs. Dallowy, living in the time of 1923; Laura Brown, a reader of Mrs.Dalloway, living in 1949; and Clarissa Vaughn, a modern Mrs. Dalloway, living in 20th century. Beyond the same themes: love, life and death, and women rights, its main characters have the same names and similar personalities and destinies to those in Mrs. Dalloway. However, a obvious difference is that the women in Hours think more about love, death and meaning of life rather than the safety and social position. It reflects that women are economically independent comparing to their counterparts 100 years ago.
Okay. This book is depressing. At first, I liked that Woolf wrote the novel inside the heads of her characters, but now I feel too close to each of their hearts and heads, so personal and invasive. It’s uncomfortable, which I think Woolf wants her readers to feel. At the time Woolf wrote this novel, mental illness was not a comfortable topic of discussion. To write about these illnesses was bold. Death is a continuous theme, foreshadowing Clarissa’s death throughout the story. Not only does Clarissa think about herself dying, Peter imagines her death as well. These multiple pieces of “evidence” makes the reader think that Woolf is foreshadowing Clarissa’s death. However, I think that Septimus is the character who will perish. He is too far gone to recover from the pain of his past. Septimus’s suicidal tendencies must reflect the thoughts of Woolf herself - was she not prescribed a retreat to the woods when she struggled with thoughts of suicide? Woolf’s husband, similar to Rezia, didn’t understand the pain his wife was in, how the seclusion only made things worse. Though it makes me sad and slightly uncomfortable, I’m glad that this book includes the theme of mental illness because it is still an issue and a conversation that we should be having today. Discomfort means progress.
ReplyDeleteI like the conciseness of this post. I agree with both your opening and your closing statements. Discomfort does mean progress, it takes people like Woolf who are way ahead of their time to push us forward!
DeleteThe character of Septimus might have been created to be a counterpoint to Mrs. Dalloway, but there were actually quite a few similarities between the two as well. Starting with the differences though, Septimus can best be described as insane, and he suffers from shell shock and depression. He really is quite a sad character that one has to feel some sympathy for, as the time he spent in the war has scarred him for life, which is similar to many other characters in other books, as well as to veterans in real life. Mrs. Dalloway is much more sane. The similarities between the two include their love for Shakespeare, a sort of isolation from the rest of society, and shared thoughts of death.
ReplyDeleteThe relationship between Sally Seton and Clarissa is that Sally is that they knew each other as girls and Sally was a big influence on Clarissa back then. They two had planned to change English society later in life. In the present, the two have obviously changed quite a bit, as society has forced them. However, the two do end up sharing a kiss, showing that they still have a bit of a rebellious side.
This section of the story begins with a shift of perspective, moving from Clarissa to Septimus. While reading through this transition I couldn’t help but connect it to Virginia Woolf herself. As reflected in “The Hours” as well as its movie adaptation, Woolf’s mental state seems to waver between simply being uneased, and being completely unhinged as it was towards the end of the movie when she demanded to be brought back to London. Clarissa seems to be in a mentally healthy state and only questions her existence and consciousness in an educational and, at worst, dissatisfied sense. Septimus on the other hand can be reflected of Virginia Woolf’s worst moments and experiences with mental illness.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to proving a range of characters with a variety of backgrounds and personalities, it really amazes me how faceted Woolf is able to make the people in her writing. Beyond every person being quite unique, Woolf does an excellent job in incorporating the lives of each person into having relationships with one another as opposed to having very independent characters who do not interact with each other at all. This interconnectedness is very well done and as a result it produces an almost Shakespear or Dickens-like play in which all the characters and separate plot progressions converge throughout the story.
Still, at this point, my favorite relationship is the one between Peter and Clarissa. I noticed that with Peter in particular Woolf shifts the story between a reflection of the past, and the real time analysis of the present. For example, Woolf’s constant reflecting of the past when the story is being told from Peter’s perspective emphasizes his personal insecurities. He is constantly doubting himself, and over-analyzing his previous choices and encounters. Furthermore his mental tangents often end with a self declaration of teenager-like indifference.
In this section, we see this new side of Clarissa as she tries to find her purpose in life now that she is an older woman. We see how she struggles with her sexuality as she begins to think about Sally whom she had a spark of romance with. Clarissa reminisces these times as Virginia Woolf bring us to a closer look into Clarissas thoughts. This book has really given me a new perspective as it exposes us to these characters thoughts in one day and how they deal with their problems while trying to conform to societal expectations. This can be seen through Clarissa, as she has suppressed her sexuality and denied herself that happiness because at the time, being with a person of the opposite sex was very taboo. This then can be linked to Septimus and his own struggles with his mental state and the inability for others around him to provide their help as their was not as much resources available at that time period to deal with such issues.
ReplyDeleteThroughout Clarissa’s life she had been influenced by people, like her Aunt Helena, who embodied the proper, middle class society in england. Clarissa was enchanted by Sally’s daring personality that challenged the lifestyle she had grown accustomed to. When she met Sally she began to think outside of the role of a women planning parties and pleasing others than herself. They “” planned their future and Sally’s reappearance in Clarissa’s life reminds her of the dreams and hope she had of making a great impact on the world. Sally’s marriage shows the abandonment of the life they wanted to create for themselves and how much both the women have changed since their youth. Clarrissa’s openness and curiosity was revealed during the summer she spent falling in love with Sally, but we see a loss of this outlook she once held when she is appalled by her neighbor having a child before marriage.
ReplyDeleteReading this section of the novel, and following Septimus’ thoughts, I immediately compared him to Virginia Woolf. From reading and watching the movie The Hours, we were able to see Virginia Woolf come alive and witness the thoughts and pieces of the personality behind the writing in this novel. Throughout The Hours, we witness Virginia Woolf’s mental struggles, much like the character, Septimus. However, Woolf’s struggles allowed her to create a work in which Clarissa and Septimus, though different on the surface, have similarities deep down. Clarissa’s character on the surface makes me think that she represents the woman that society believes Virginia Woolf should be; a housewife planning parties. However, the deeper thoughts of Clarissa, such as her thoughts about Sally, reflect more of Woolf’s thoughts and feelings. Clarissa is a mixture of Woolf deep down, packaged as a high class woman who fit in with society. Septimus’ relationship with his wife, Lucrezia, reminds me of the relationship that Virginia has with her husband, Leonard. Leonard and Lucrezia’s roles as caregivers mirror each other, showing how Woolf drew from her own experiences to create this novel.
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